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Click Vortex: Still Rock & Rolling
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It's time for a biweekly online rabbit hole journey with Sam Means and Jason P. Woodbury. On today’s show, our click trails take us from Billy Joel to Television to the Johns (Glynn, Ethan, and Andy)—who've helped to make some of the best sounding records ever—and from Todd Rundgren to Ric Ocasek and then Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins. And of course, the boys are digress and discurse all along the way.
Click Vortex is made for you by WASTOIDS, audio and video from Hello Merch. Home to music podcasts, live performance videos, art, and other strange stuff, you can call us at any time by dialing 1-877-WASTOIDS. Leave a message and listen for it on Click Vortex.
You're listening to Waste Oits.
SPEAKER_00This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Without a healthy mind, being truly happy and at peace is hard. The good news is therapy works. But what is therapy exactly? It's whatever you want it to be. Maybe you're not feeling motivated right now and would like some tools to help. Or maybe you're feeling insecure in relationships or at work, not dealing well with stress. Whatever you need, it's time to stop being ashamed of normal human struggles and start feeling better because you deserve to be happy. And now you don't have to worry about finding an in-person therapist near you to help. Better help is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy, and you can start communicating with your therapist in under 48 hours. Join the millions of people who are seeing what online therapy is really about. It's always a good time to invest in yourself because you are your greatest asset. And as a special offer to wastetoids listeners, you can get 10% off your first month of professional therapy at betterhelp.com slash wastoids. That's better hp.com slash wastoids. Thanks again to BetterHelp for sponsoring this episode.
SPEAKER_07This is wastoids.
SPEAKER_04This is wastoids. This is wastetoids. This is waste oids.
SPEAKER_02Mainly so that I'm not like incredibly grumpy with the dudes. Hangry. Hangry. How annoying was it? On a scale of one to ten, ten representing extreme annoyance, it was like a four. Like it wasn't very annoying. Rolling that concludes dental talk. Onto Click Vortex. Seamless transition. Hey, we're back with the third episode of Click Vortex. How are you doing today, Sam? Uh, frantic. I think this is a quality that we both share. Yeah. You know, people always say like on the uh on the internet, we're encouraged to present like these like idealized versions of ourselves. Like the this is like, this is me, look at my perfect life. I think today we're gonna we're gonna let down the veil and acknowledge our in all of our frantic complexities. We're gonna show everybody how much of a mess we actually are. This is we're a mess. But because we're so dedicated to the listeners of Click Vortex and to keeping them entertained at all times, we're pushing through, we're bringing you fully devoted to the craft that is podcasting. We are we're devoted to the craft. We've we've uh we've eased in, we've both got our um we're not gonna say what brand mineral water because we're not being paid to advertise them.
SPEAKER_03I'm I'm actually funny you say that because I am going to say it later. It's part of my uh Oh it's it's well we'll get there. Let's not spoil it. Yeah, let's not spoil it. Let's not spoil my incredibly uh fantastic uh you're swirling spiral. The brand name of what we're drinking right now is literally the last word in my notes. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So excellent. Well, that's because somehow I knew that. This will come around full circle in the best way possible. Okay. It won't be boring at all. Oh yeah, exactly. Just like this part of the podcast that is boring no one. No. We are going to we are going to get into uh this week's click for text. Before we do that, though, I do want to say I have an addendum to last week or last two weeks. The last episode. Okay. And the main thing is I forgot Bringing Out the Dead as one of my favorite Nicolas Cage movies. I don't know if you've ever seen that one. Uh I don't think so. It's a Scorsese joint. It's really good. No, I don't think so. Written by Paul Schrader, who wrote Taxi Driver and First Reformed.
SPEAKER_03And this seems like something I should have seen, but maybe I'm so maybe I'm just blanking it, but I'll have to go look.
SPEAKER_02It's about ambulance drivers, and it's a Nicolas Cage uh masterwork. Absolute masterwork.
SPEAKER_03So no, I don't think I've seen that.
SPEAKER_02So I feel bad, and I don't remember which five I picked. I'll probably we could probably remove Ghostwriter Spirit of Vengeance in order to fit in bringing out the dead, but I can't think if you had to pick one, that's a good one. But I can't be sure. I can't be sure. It's been a minute since you know we've revisited.
SPEAKER_03So uh Brandon, who who works down here and and we'll be hearing from him on the Voice Toys the uh Yeah, he uh he told me that there was a uh Nicolas Cage AMA on Reddit and sent me some highlights from it. It's pretty great.
SPEAKER_02I saw some of those too, and they yeah, fascinating dude.
SPEAKER_03His his top three in his top three uh ghostwriter was not in there.
SPEAKER_02No, but bringing out the dead was, and that's when I was like, Oh, oh crap. I I I he's right.
SPEAKER_03If you're ever gonna interview him, because you have such respect for you know his personal space, for the crowd, you have to you have to get you have to get on board with his favorite movies. Leaving Las Vegas was one of them, was it? Yeah, it definitely was. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It was one of yours and one of his. Uh Leaving Las Vegas wasn't on my list, but it was on his. But it's a great movie, of course.
SPEAKER_03So that's gonna have to get to on your list too.
SPEAKER_02You know, when Nicolas Cage, you know, he's probably listening right now. He's probably been wondering.
SPEAKER_03Especially now that we talk about him so much, is this is basically turning into the next one.
SPEAKER_02Well, I was gonna say we'll offer him a Vegas centric uh podcast here on the Waste Oids Podcast Network, and then and then we'll be uh just basking in the glow that is Cage.
SPEAKER_03I was thinking about that last night when I was working on my on my clicks. Um I I'm sorry in advance, but I just have I was going through my notes and I'm like, did I talk about this already? Like in the last episode. Wait, did we already talk about this band? So I don't know, whatever. There's I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of redundancy because as I think we've pointed out, uh my memory is shot. So sure. Um yeah, I'm like the kind of guy that did a bunch of drugs when he was young, except I didn't do any. Yeah, so you're just the kind of guy you're just I I play that part, but like I just, yeah, I didn't do a lot of acid, but for some reason my memory is gone.
SPEAKER_02So just I don't know. I think that the internet robs us of our memory, and that's something we'll get into with our new the next the next podcast series we do, memory hole or something like that. But wait, so what band are you gonna bring up? Or am I starting?
SPEAKER_03This I guess Oh, okay. I guess I well, should I start or do you want to start? You should start. We should should we is that should that be the movie we rotate?
SPEAKER_02I think that'll be the move we rotate each each episode.
SPEAKER_03You you kick one off, I kick off as I um try to turn off my screensaver here, I'm going to point out that uh this one was a little tough for me because I started doing what I do. We watch a Vivo kind of at the end of the night, and uh I had a great uh a few really great starts that ended up being just instant dead end. So yeah. Uh I ultimately landed on Billy Joel by way of the still rock and roll to me video.
SPEAKER_04What's the matter with the clothes on wearing? Can't you tell that your ties too white? Maybe I should buy some old tap collars. Welcome back to the age of jive. Where have you been hiding out lately? Honey, you can't dress or trash it till you spend a lot of money. Everybody's talking about the new sound. Funny, but it's still rockin' roll to me.
SPEAKER_02I haven't seen the still rock and roll to me video in a while. What's what's the vibe?
SPEAKER_03The vibe is uh, you know, very, very uh you know, 50s throwback. He's wearing a he's wearing a bright red suit, which I believe he's wearing on the cover of the single as well. I noticed on the on the uh, you know, like he had a uniform for the song. Yeah. Uh but yeah, it was what was interesting about that, uh he he he got a lot of uh the the reviews for Billy Joel, I should say, when you go back and look look through his discography, the early discography, like the first six records he had. Yeah. Not great reviews. Yeah. People were not fans of Billy Joel. I mean, critics at least. Critics. People critics were pretty rough on Billy Joel.
SPEAKER_02People seem to like him pretty early on.
SPEAKER_03I was kind of surprised. Like I was looking through I was looking through his first six albums because I just think of Billy Joel as this like monster. Yeah. Like pop music monster. Like he's just his written. I mean, if you his I mean his greatest hits alone are massive. Like that's how I yeah, that's how you sort of get into, or at least, you know, in our age group, maybe the greatest hits of Billy Joel were pretty for sure, pretty out there. So um, yeah, like he had a he had a I forget what his first record was called. Not super familiar. There was like one song on it that I recognized the title even.
SPEAKER_02Um I think I I think I can see the cover in my black and white face, and it looks kind of like weirdly creepy, maybe.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean it kinda yeah, it looks yeah, it's in it, it's I mean it's actually kind of a cool cover for Billy Joel. But um after that was Piano Man, which was pretty big as far as like sales go, yeah, of all time. Yeah, it's like he sold I think four million copies of that record, but like it didn't chart very well. Um and then he came out with Street Life uh Street Life Serenade, which again, not a ton of hits on that one, just the entertainer was like the one that I could think of. But yeah, and anyway, long story short, it's just the the wave of Billy Joel's success is pretty nuts. Like how you can have you know Piano Man's your your follow-up record.
SPEAKER_02Is that is that record called The Stranger, maybe?
SPEAKER_03The Stranger is like Is The Stranger Far Later? The Strangers, yeah, like well, let's see, one, two, three, four, like four or five records in.
SPEAKER_02Okay, cool, cool, cool. The only one that I'm super familiar with.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's the only one that everyone's super familiar with, because that's that was like the major breakout record, sort of like right in the middle. Um, that had yeah, like moving out just the way you are, scenes from Italian restaurant, uh that's my personal Only The Good Die Young, or Woman. That had like every like you look at that record and it's just like that it had every every amazing Billy Joel song on it.
SPEAKER_02Right. But Piano Man, a big hit.
SPEAKER_03Piano Man was a big hit with the record.
SPEAKER_02It's like his mostly it's like his most well-known song now, probably. I yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I mean that's that's the crazy thing. But that's the weird thing too. It's like after The Stranger sold 10 million records, went to number two, obviously writing on like a big high. The next record is 52nd Street. Um which, yeah, I mean, you would think would have way, way crazier hits on it, but it's like Big Shot, which is I mean, that's a great song, but I wouldn't think of that as like one of his biggest songs. But no Big Shot and and My Life, which is again another great song. But that record went to number one, whoa, which is nuts. Uh and uh yeah, so I was uh I think one of my favorite ones is is Glass Houses, which this song is on. Still rock and roll to me, is one of my I mean this record is one of my favorite records because one of the songs that I was drawn to the most on it always is uh Don't Ask Me Why, which when I looked at the critics review of this album, they were kind of talking trash on that song specifically, saying it was like a Paul McCartney knockoff. Okay. Whereas I actually thought it was more of like a Nielsen knockoff, like a Nielsen throwback, like something from Nielsen Schmilsen. He said that's a cool yeah, that's a cool song. It has like a little wood block in it, and yeah, it's just really smooth and like has a like an interesting little um like piano piece in the center of it.
SPEAKER_02Glass Houses is another for whatever reason the album covers are what I'm thinking of.
SPEAKER_03And that's why Glass Houses is like the discount tire commercial.
SPEAKER_02It's like his he's like gonna he's gonna throw stone at a glass house.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly. Very, very, very not like uh not a big metaphor going with the cover there, but I mean I think there maybe was a metaphor, something going with that, just as far as like there seemed to be a lot of uh he was resentful of the the trash that was being talked on him by the critics saying that he was just yeah kind of like recreating it was just like redundant pop music from the 60s and 70s kind of thing. Sure, sure, sure. I think is actually what's awesome about Billy Joel. I mean, that like if you add if if you're looking at who's making records in like the late 70s, early 80s, yeah, it makes sense why people were talking trash on him because you have disco and like early like new wave pop music happening which is why in still rock and roll to me, he's talking that's that's what he's talking about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03What's wrong with just making rock and roll? Like, why do I have to, you know, why do I have to do this? Which I now actually think about it, I wonder if like the decision to wear a red shirt and like a white tie or whatever was kind of like a nod to you know, like 80s like craft work or something, like just that yeah, that vibe of stuff coming in.
SPEAKER_02It always it always is so weird to me because he's one of those dudes who um there's this like he's like obviously he's he's like big, you know. At at some point he breaks through and he's like a major pop star. But similar to uh somebody who ended up on my click vortex list, there's this sense of like kind of like resentment that he he maintains, I feel like. Um maybe it's like a little bit of anger that the critics don't give him his due, or maybe it's a little bit of like frustration with something, but he's an interesting he's just an interesting character overall.
SPEAKER_03I mean Well the other thing too is just realizing how like important important that was back then, like the critics really could make or break somebody, and you it was like a a struggle to just get through that, you know. For for sure, for sure. Now I don't feel like that's does anybody really care? I mean, no offense to you. I mean you're you're a music critic. You've been a music critic in your day. I mean, is that uh I I just don't think it holds the same weight as it used to.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I don't think it can because of uh the internet and because of like I mean, now probably like uh uh instead of the music critic being like the the arbiter of like whether or not your stuff reaches people, it's probably you know whoever's in charge of putting you on a playlist or whatever, right? Like, or like if you're like a hip-hop guy, you gotta get on the rap caviar playlist or else no one's gonna know who you are. So there are always like certain gatekeepers and stuff like that. But the critics used to have a lot of I mean, but then you go back and you look at especially like at the Rolling Stone critics stuff, like they they they also dunked on Zeppelin and Black Sabbath got bad reviews and all this stuff. So it's like you could still kind of like you could still reach uh the the the masses, like even without the approval of the critics, but if you don't have the critics sort of backing you, you don't necessarily get that respect that you might long for, the way somebody like a Billy Joel might long for.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for sure. Because I mean he's just yeah, I mean I and I feel like I've even heard him uh interviewed about this, you know, he just feels awkward as like a like the center of attention, as like a as like a rock star or whatever you want to call it. He doesn't fit the mold, he doesn't fit the mold, but he's just and he I've heard him say he hates his voice, which I know everybody says that, but uh you know, it's just I don't know, he's so unique. Yeah. Um and obviously that's critic society doesn't even matter. I mean, like the music speaks for himself, for itself, and uh yeah, I mean he just keeps or kept going. I mean, he I was I'm just looking at like six straight records and these song. I mean, that's really that I mean that's why the greatest hits are so impressive, because you just see like this guy for yeah, I mean, even into the 90s with like you say what you want about River of Dreams, but like a couple big song, I mean, a couple big songs on that album.
SPEAKER_02And that was and that was like the last that was the last Billy Joel record, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think he got even probably even like a lot of trash for that record too. It's like just relentlessly hammering Billy Joel. He's like, I'm just gonna like make play classical music now, I don't care, and just go on tour and have fun with people that actually like me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, when I was when I was like younger, uh specifically playing, I was playing in a band and I had a buddy who who played like keyboards for us. Um, and and we we used to have this like rolling uh disagreementslash fun thing that we weren't really mad at each other in this in these arguments, but it was always like a it was a Beatles and Stones type thing, but it was like, are you an Elton John guy or a Billy Joel guy? Like you can't be both, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I was always until you go to that show because I feel like we did the tour together.
SPEAKER_02Like then they did a thing together.
SPEAKER_03I feel like they've done that even like more than once. The piano men or whatever it was called.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, I don't think that's what it was really called.
SPEAKER_03What if there's like a dueling piano situation on that tour? There must have been, right? I would hope so, right? Like I that would be incredible.
SPEAKER_02Just pushed up against each other, and these two dudes are locked in like concentration. I was always an Elton John dude, but um, but like the so you can't deny certain Billy Joel songs from from just like uh from a like enduring standpoint. I do think it's funny though that like so you said this was this this album came out late late 70s.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, Glass Houses, I feel like oh man, that's the one note I didn't take. Yeah, it was either late 70s or like or pretty early 80s. Actually, I think it was I'm sorry, I did write that down. I think it was 1980.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02We're both without planning it, and we're we're just so s in such similar zones, but we we'll get into this. I it's really interesting to me that at this point, right? Like uh we're talking uh roughly 15, 20-ish years after sort of the birth of rock and roll. Yeah. And it's almost amazing to me immediately how rock and roll starts becoming a thing that people talk about going away. But like but they're still like they're still talking about it, right? Like people are still like, this band's gonna save rock, or they're bringing rock back, or whatever. So it's funny to me that he was like, it's such an it's still rock and roll to me, is such a good example of like uh similar to that Bob Seeger song, right? You know, the um you're still the one. No, the one Bob Singer songs with the word just still old time rock and roll. Old time rock and roll. Or or uh or the stones, it's only rock and roll, but I like it. Like yeah, immediately like people are like rock and roll is here to stay or whatever. That's a song too, I think, right? Yeah, exactly. And but anyway, so it's funny to me that like Billy Joel, especially because Billy Joel, of all of the sort of arbiters of like, we're gonna keep rock and roll alive, it's like Billy Joel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, also like I didn't really dig into the lyrics that much, but now that I think about it, maybe maybe my um my take on this is wrong. I'd have to go back and get fact checked by someone. But I mean, I feel like the general vibe of that song is not just that like rock and roll is okay, but also just it's all rock and roll. Like it's it's everything's still just I mean, everything's right. I mean, because doesn't he talk about like new wave and I mean maybe he's talking trash on it. I don't know. Well, but it's I'll have to I'll have to check the lyrics on that one. But absolutely but it seems like he's just being sort of like neutral, like it's all rock and roll, who cares? Like yeah, and we should be able to make music and just have fun, you know.
SPEAKER_02And he's not wrong either, right? Because like for all of the like the the sex pistols are this revolutionary new vanguard or whatever, it's like these are Chuck Berry riffs and like Beach Boys melodies, but they're just yeah singing them with snot, you know, or like or most new wave absolutely adhering to like rock and roll 50s rock and roll templates, you know.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, so anyway, the one one constant or one thing for sure is like also I want to note, which gets me into my next click, is like how great these all these Billy Joel records sound too, especially for the time. Like in the late 70s, early 80s, most records sounded like total garbage, like they were starting to get really thin sounding, they were moving into a lot of like different uh technology that didn't necessarily have the same warmth and stuff. His his records I feel like really kind of always did maintain that like warmth of like 60s and 70s pop music. Yeah, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that he um had a really consistent band. Um there was I I forget the name of the producer, but he worked with the producer for like a few of the at least a few of these records.
SPEAKER_02Was was the producer Phil Ramone, maybe? I think so. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Who was in the Ramones? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, my favorite, my favorite member of the Ramones. Uh no, but this guy, uh, one thing that I I love and have pointed out to many people is how great the drums are on Billy Joel records. Yeah. And I had never looked this up, but had always hoped that it was this one guy was the drummer throughout. And I was like, there's no way Billy Joel's getting this lucky and like has like the these amazing drums. This guy, Liberty DeVito. Oh man, this is the drummer.
SPEAKER_01Easily the coolest name.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Liberty DeVito, the the drummer on like pretty much every incredible Billy Joel record from almost start to finish. It's like, let's see, he comes in, he comes in a like album for turnstiles, which you know, New York State of Mind is on that record. And then you get into The Stranger, 52nd Street, Glass Houses, Innocent Man, River of Dreams. He's on every single one of these songs.
SPEAKER_02Our man DeVito.
SPEAKER_03DeVito's the man. I d unfortunately, as this you know, because he was such a big part of these Billy Joel records, at some point in time he did sue Billy Joel or sued uh the record label or kind of everybody. It seemed like he was suing everybody just trying to just saying like, you know, I'm I was I was I played a big pretty big role here, which I actually completely agree with. And he didn't get any credit for anything. So isn't that that's a weird like you see that happen a lot with these big bands, like when you have people that are like, you know, if they don't ever become members and you know, it's like you're uh you've been in the Foo Fighters for 15 years or something. Um R.I.P. Maybe that's a bad reference. You've been in the Rolling Stones. I I saw some Rolling Stones documentary, and it's like, yeah, there's like some dude from a 90s that another Square Sazy thing. I think he did like a Rolling Stones documentary in the 90s or something. Um I think he did. I want to say that sounds right. Maybe I'm making that up. Mandy, anybody? Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And if it's not right, guys, nobody's been shy of telling me what stuff we've got wrong on here, so just keep it coming, folks. We appreciate those co-regists.
SPEAKER_03But anyway, that I mean, that was like a click vortex thing before the click vortex. I was watching that and I was like, oh, I wonder who this band is. They're you use they have like a band leader and they're going through the whole thing. And I was like, oh, this dude's been in this band for like 25 years, you know, it's like since the it's since the night late 90s or something.
SPEAKER_02It's the same as like session people or backup singers or whoever, you know, you you like at what point does like the concept of ownership in music and authorship in music is like a really tricky one, right? Because like, I mean, you you play music and um you know to a much lesser degree I play music, and and you know that like there are certain things where it's like the bass player does a little thing and you're like, ooh, that's that's a good idea, and then it changes the way the song unfolds, right? But it's really nobody's ever in the moment able to have that sort of foresight to be like, hang on a second. At this point, you have established established yourself as a co-writer of this song or whatever, right? And so that gets tricky, and it's also like, is arranging the same as songwriting? Is the you know, it's it's it just gets it just gets weird, and it's such a collaborative effort on its own. I guess what I'm saying is justice for liberty to feed out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I was happy to hear that or to see that he he settled with with Billy.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um but anyway, that on that song in particular has just really killer drums, and it was funny because as I was looking at that song and the single and all the notes about it, they specifically pointed out the drums because the engineer had him tune the drums down, the snare down so low that it it um I think the word was it would flop when he played it. Uh which when you listen to, I mean, just think of that like you mean that the snare is very prominent and that and it sounds awesome. Yeah. But the engineer of that of that record in many, many records, is this guy, Jim Boyer. And uh that's how I get to my next click is I click on Jim Boyer, and I'm like, who's this Jim Boyer who's making these? He's an he's like an assistant engineer on this record. He's making really great decisions on snare drums and basically making this song sound incredible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I go, I start looking through Jim Boyer's uh discography, and he does uh you know, I see that he does marking moves by the same thing. Great record. Sounds amazing. Yes. And uh I'm like, who produced this record? And what what did this Jim Boyer guy do? You know, and it's turns out it was it was produced by Tom Verlaine in television, or television. Uh he wanted to produce the record and he was on Electro Records. And um I'm I was very familiar with this because I was two once on Electro Records, and Electra was like, Okay, Tom, you can produce this record if you get a well-known engineer to work with you. And he picks Jim Boyer. Oh no, I'm sorry. Jim Boyer's the engineer. He picks uh someone someone else. Uh Andy Johns.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so do you know who Andy Johns is?
SPEAKER_02Uh Marky Moon's one of my favorite records, but no.
SPEAKER_03Don't know who Andy Johns is. I also don't know who Andy Johns is. I'm thinking in my head, what producers do I know with the last name Johns? A lot. That's interesting. Yeah. I wonder if they're related. Click. Yes, they are. Andy Johns is Glenn Johns' brother. Whoa. Is Ethan Johns uncle. Yeah. Um, he produced this record because he had produced some. I'm not a huge Rolling Stones fan, so I can't think of the name of it, but some sort of like trashier sounding Rolling Stones record. Yeah. So he decides to get to get Andy Johns and Andy Johns for however, you know, uh through whatever reason, Jim Boyer also comes on and he's the engineer for this record, which makes sense. I mean, this is like a really great sounding record, and and that's what's funny and interesting about these things is like you start piecing these things together and you you start picking up on like, oh, I like the sound of the drums on this Billy Joel record. Right. I like the sound of the drums on all these like Glenn John records specifically. A lot of that must have rubbed off on like yeah, and then how much of this, you know, like I don't know, you just you can see where these these things pick up and like how they're used in other records, these same similar recording techniques, which is the fun part about dorking out on producers and engineers.
SPEAKER_02You and I would say that most people probably wouldn't think that there's like one degree of separation from Billy Joel to television, but I mean, but uh a great, a great Marky Moon. Uh I think it turns 45 this year. Um and Elizabeth Nelson, who is a really cool writer, um, I think she's on Twitter and Instagram as Paranoi Paranoiacs, the Paranoid Style is her, she's in a band too. She wrote this awesome piece for The Ringer that just like breaks down Marky Moon in exquisite detail that was published this week. So nice as a good timing as of last week. Yeah, I just shared it on Twitter yesterday. Nice. Um, but it's great, right? And and she definitely talks about to to to just riff on Marky Moon for a second. Like to the way that that's like a an incredible record that although it's associated with the punk scene, like there's just so much sophistication and like kind of like elegance to that record.
SPEAKER_03And yeah, and most of it was recorded live. Like some of the I was even seeing on a lot of it, like it was the first take where they just they didn't even know that he was rolling and they thought they were just practicing, and he's like, That's good.
SPEAKER_02Which is neat, keep it nuts, which is nuts because you hear those guitars on that record. Uh Richard Lloyd, Tom Verlaine, both heroes in their own right, and both like oddly enough, exactly what I was thinking about when I was talking about owner authorship of songs. Yeah. Because there's a lot of it's this stuff gets lost to time, so it's like a thing where it's like Richard Lloyd is like, I had a lot more to do with this riff than than I'm credited for, you know, or whatever. But yeah, so that's that's that's amazing that that was all that that all ties as as well as it does.
SPEAKER_03And what's a I mean, this family too is just amazing of producers. I I because I didn't, I mean, obviously we know about Glenn Johns. Yeah. For those listening who don't know, Glenn Johns produced uh he was like the engineer on Let It Be. You may have seen him wearing like a fur coat in the in the Disney Plus Let It Be thing.
SPEAKER_02Looking so cool.
SPEAKER_03Looking so cool, smoking 10,000 cigarettes, eating a lot of sandwiches. Um he produced Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, Neil Young Harvest, which is like one of the greatest sounding records. I I think that he's like, as far as drum tones go, probably the best.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if there's ever been a snare sound I like more than Harvest.
SPEAKER_03I mean it's like yeah, it's like the ultimate nerdy thing, but it's like you go back and listen to these records, listen to those drums and tell me they don't sound absolutely perfect. Like unbelievably perfect. Yeah. Um, and his son, also Ethan John's same thing. Major player amazing sounding records. Um, you know, Heartbreaker sounds amazing. Uh Gold sounds amazing. Right. He did uh Rainy Day Music. I I've been listening to that record again a lot because I think did we we talk about it at some point in time that Jayhawks?
SPEAKER_02We might have talked about it on the podcast or we might have talked about it just talking about it. But yeah, Jayhawks.
SPEAKER_03It's just been coming up on my shuffle, and I've been like going back and listening to that record. So now it's coming up more and more and more because you know that's how that stuff works. Um but yeah, I also had forgotten that um the John in the keeping it in the family with the Johns that Ethan Johns did Hard Candy by Counting Crows, which is kind of like a weird one-off Counting Crows record that I'm super, super into by way of Nate, who I was in the band with. Um, he was a huge Counting Crows fan, and I I got really sucked into that record.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if you've ever listened to it, but I don't know if I I'm sure I would if it came out in the 90s, I'm sure I at least know like a single from it, right?
SPEAKER_03Like the single I think was called Hard Candy. Okay. It sounds really great, and it's just a really there's a lot of really good melodic pop songs on it. You should go check it out. Okay and give give the County Crows a little bit of credit if uh a lot of people hate them.
SPEAKER_02But I g I give them credit for the for the tunes I know, you know, and then they're they have their vocal defenders for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So anyway, I'm you know, trying to we're we're we're trying to keep these things a little bit shorter, so we'll keep moving. Um yeah. So yeah, I I I'm I'm impressed with the Johns family. I'm impressed with uh Jim Boyer, this engineer, who's clearly I mean, he's doing really cool things with drums, and then knowing that he's we're we talked about how amazing drums are with the Johns family, also. Um so I'm looking through just the other notable things in the Mark U Moon Wikipedia page, and I see that uh the album cover is awesome. So I'm like, hey, who did this? Uh turns out Robert Maplethorpe took the picture, um, looks really cool, ran it to like it's I don't know if it was him or someone else, like the art director or somebody ran it to like through like a copy machine to give it that weird vibe that it has.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it has a kind of weird, like not blurry, just like the like muted, weird fade.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it just looks cool, it has this like cool look to it. And um, and I'm like, and I'm you know, I'm also clicking through Robert Maplethorpe. I've seen really interesting documentary about that person. Um and when I'm there, I'm like, I see this building that's in the lower east side, and I'm like, oh, I see that building all the time. That was Robert Maplethorpe studio. I had no idea. I walk by that thing constantly when I'm when I'm in New York. It has this like these gold um statues just kind of like climbing all over the the um fire escape, which is really cool. Um so then yeah, I'm just like uh awesome. Robert Maplethorpe took this picture, and then there's like a whole thing also about like the art direction, which I'm a nerd about that stuff also, so I click through to that, and it's this guy, uh Tony Lane. So I click on Tony Lane and I'm like, wow, this is sort of like uh uh the last episode or the episode before when I'm talking about the the team of dudes that like wrote had this like string of hits.
SPEAKER_02Eternal flame by the Bengals, yeah. Which that song also came on again the other night and we were just like, dang, this is Yeah, I downloaded it so I could use it to drop in the last episode, and it's come up on my shuffle a number of times, and each time I'm like Yeah, get to me. Anyway.
SPEAKER_03Uh Anita told me the story of this person I don't know, some some guy from some band or something. She was they were hanging out, and she's she said just for like four hours she could hear through his headphones, he was listening to Eternal Flame on repeat, like nonstop.
SPEAKER_01That's a that's a that's a choice. That was a choice. Something he's going through something.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So anyway, I look at this Tony Lane dude, and I'm like, wow, this guy's really cool. He did all the like um, you know, like the really cool 70s Rolling Stone covers um that have very similar vibes to the television thing. I you know, there's like a Bowie one and a neat there's ones that I recognize, like Neil Young, Bowie, I don't know, um, some cool stuff. He also did Bridge over Troubled Water, which is a really cool album cover. He did Michael Jackson's Bad, which is a really, you know, oh yeah, that's a great cover. Great cover, but also like totally different from the other stuff that he had done. Uh but anyway, the the most interesting part about it is like yeah, he does television, he does Bridge over Troubled Water, he does Michael Jackson's Bad, and then he does the branding for LaCroix, Sparkling Water, which I was like, wow, that I was not expecting that turn. He he he brands LaCroix. Um, final note on that, just to bring all of this around full circle. I promised, I promised that we would talk about sparkling water at some point. They've been on the edge of their seats since yeah. So I mean, I so I'm like, wow, I look at LaCroix and I'm just like, my God, this company started in 1980, and uh which coincidentally was the year Glass Houses came out. I knew I had that note somewhere. Oh boy. Uh so I bring it, I bring this all around full circle. Uh, and they were like the the cool thing about this is they were just about to go out of business and this like massive marketing push happened in 2015, and like now they're one of the biggest um sparkling water companies on the planet. But what I wanted to say is what I'm drinking here is not LaCroix, yeah, it is Topo Chico, which apparently is one of the more dangerous waters you can drink. That's why I think that's why we look so cool while we're drinking. Yeah, you know, the the carbonation or something, I don't know, it's killing everybody. But um man, it's delicious. And it has that that hit it gets you every time. Yeah. Um I can get if that doesn't get us a sponsorship. I don't know what will.
SPEAKER_02It's dangerous. It's the true liquid death. Yeah, it's the true liquid death, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Which shout out to liquid death.
SPEAKER_02Shout out to liquid death. Uh the the water the water market is is a is a crowded one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um anyway, that's that's where I end. You know, I get I'm yeah, I'm Billy Joel, couple producers, engineers, uh, television, Marky Moon, LaCroix with sparkling water.
SPEAKER_02That's that's fantastic. Before we move into mine, and I'm I'm I'm I'm impressed with our our brevity and our relative. I'll blow that now, probably. Um before we get into it, two things. One, uh Robert Maplethorpe, uh I you are a New York dude a lot of the time. I am less so, but when I have the the one time that I went to New York, uh my wife Becky and I, we really lived it up and we went to the Whitney and I got to see his photo of Patty Smith that's on the cover of Horses. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um I Yeah, those I think those are the two notable record covers he did, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'm sure there's more.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure I'm sure there are more, but like that one particularly, like just looking at it and just sort of standing there. There were a lot of his images, all uh many of which are like amazing. Like absolutely oh, you know, what he also I don't know if you've ever heard the record I Am a Bird Now by Anthony and the Johnsons. Yeah, I yeah, I love that record actually. Anoni, uh, you know, now known as Anoni Anthony at the time. Um I love that record beyond belief, and I believe that is a I believe that is a Maplethorpe photo of um Candy Darling. Uh and if I'm wrong, I'm probably close to being right. Yeah. So something like that. But yeah, uh talk about images, right? I mean, just like that that um that that Patty Smith photo is amazing. Oh yeah. Knowing that he did the tele television album cover is amazing. Yeah. And then my other note is just while you were clicking on notes, you didn't make sure that Liberty DeVito is not related to Danny DeVito, right?
SPEAKER_03I did I did make sure, of course I did. No, they're not they're not related.
SPEAKER_02Okay, good. I just thought, you know, I was pretty sure that if you if it had been Danny.
SPEAKER_03I mean, maybe there's some like distant relation there, but yeah, it's not like his brother or anything, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02Okay, j just had to make sure. And with that said, we're gonna move into my click. Let's do it. So I texted you about um the the first part of mine, which was that uh it was just announced uh or had been announced some other time, and I just saw it, that uh on on June 1st, uh a tribute to the Beatles is playing celebrity theater. Yeah. Um my ClickForce unfortunately covers similar ground as yours, and also some ground we've already covered, but here we are. I'm I'm trying out of ideas three episodes in, and we're like, you know what, we gotta go back to this other thing. I took it other places, but anyway, a tribute to the Beatles playing celebrity theater, not necessarily noteworthy on its own. But then when I saw who was in the tribute to the Beatles, and it's um Christopher Cross of Sailing Fame. Uh, I'm a big fan of uh of his his record, uh, the one with the flamingo on it. That's a joke because they all have flamingos on the cover. Um but is that like a thing? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's an well, it's obviously intentional, but what's the do you know the story behind it?
SPEAKER_02I think I I did look to see if there was an interesting story behind it, and I think he said something like, Yeah, I like flamingos. Yeah, they're pretty. But anyway, Christopher Cross, who is a shredder, and that's not always known about him.
SPEAKER_03Not to be confused with Chris Cross.
SPEAKER_02Not to be confused with Chris Cross, who makes you jump junk. I mean, maybe. I actually don't remember.
SPEAKER_03But uh let's let's just pretend they do.
SPEAKER_02Uh certainly backwards pants, I believe, was their was their thing. Uh, but also Badfingers, Joey Morland, Joe Joey Molland from Badfinger is in this this uh tribute. Uh Denny Lane, who was in the Moody Blues, but also Wings. Yeah. So we're we're we're coming, you know, very close.
SPEAKER_03And also how I always thought that was crazy. I always thought that was a fake name because of Penny Lane and knowing the association with Paul McCartney.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That was interesting.
SPEAKER_02No, I know.
SPEAKER_03Uh coincidence, I guess.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and the fact is, like his his contributions on uh those wings records are are great, you know.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um then this guy Jason Chef, who uh is one of the vocalists of Chicago, not the vocalist of Chicago whose name was immediately apparent to me, but regardless, that's something. And then of course it's led by uh our our friend Todd Rundgren, friend of the pod, Todd who Todd the Turd Rundgren himself. Um Todd Rundgren.
SPEAKER_03So I think I've mentioned I've seen Todd Rundgren at Celebrity Theater before. I didn't with Ringo Star.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's amazing. Well, wait, what but it wasn't an all-star band. It wasn't all-star band.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was him and um I don't even remember who else.
SPEAKER_02They're doing this thing, is is it was 50 years ago today, and it's a tribute to the Beatles, and they're they're doing songs from Rubber Soul and Revolver. Awesome. Um, and I find myself being drawn to this like a moth to the flames. Um I'm like, I think I'm gonna have to go to the show. Not only are they doing songs from Rubber Soul and Revolver, but they're doing some of their own songs too, and I'm just curious to see what that's gonna be like. Anyway, so I I start clicking around all of these guys' names on Wikipedia. Yeah. I'm just like, let's let's see what Denny's also up to. Too much gold here. Let's see what what Joey Molland is up to. And so I'm lingering on the bad finger thing, and then I find myself just kind of going like, I'm gonna try to stay away from Todd, but then I'm looking through the bad finger thing and I see Todd's name, so I click on Todd. So now I'm back on Todd Rundgren's Wikipedia, and I live there now, you know. It's just I set up this is my home address. Um and so I was I was just kind of like clicking around and and I was like, man, what what is what's left to say about Todd? And the answer is and there's a million things left to say about Todd's. He's got that cool jacket. He basically invented uh file sharing, I think, like more or less. Yeah. Uh and but where I ended up going was that uh for a brief for a brief moment. Um Todd Rundgren fronted uh a group a version of the cars. Yes, the new cars. And um, and so I started poking around the car's Wikipedia page, and and and this is not surprising as well. I'm very on brand with this whole setup, but I but I listened to the first car's record earlier this week before Click Vortex uh had was like really on my plate. And first off, you can't overstate how many hits are on that first car's record.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Good Times Roll, My Best Friend's Girl, Just What I Needed, You're All I've Got Tonight, Moving in Stereo, and then the song Bye bye Love, which is just My favorite one on the record, honestly.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02But every song on that record. And it's mind blowing. And I was looking at sort of sort of that and I was like, what what's left to say that's interesting about the cars? And the answer is like kind of not a lot because they're they're one of those bands where it's pretty clear why they were huge, and it's pretty clear why they've endured, because these songs, although they fall into the new wave like genre, kind of in the best way possible. In the best way, right? But then there's also kind of a punk edge to them. They kind of have a punk art rock thing. Yeah. They've kind of got um and the Rolling Stone writer Chuck Eddie, I was reading his review, and he said something along the lines like, yeah, they kind of pull from like punk minimalism, 50s rockability, new wave sheen, and they put it all together with these like really uh catchy but also affecting songs, you know? Right. And so I was listening to that and I was like, well, bye-bye, love's my favorite one. I listened to it on the drive home the other day, and I kind of got choked up, even though it's Benjamin Orr singing that. Um, it's a it's an Ocasic song, you know. Benjamin Orr sung a lot uh sang a lot of the hits. A lot of the songs are it's a weird thing where like Ocasic wrote them, but then one of the other members who maybe was deemed a more uh technically better singer, you know. Yeah. But then of course he sang hits too.
SPEAKER_03So yeah. Um I always love that, like sort of the you know, because you think uh you think Rick O'Kasic for sure when you think the cars, because it's just I mean, isn't he like nine feet tall and he's just and he's so interesting looking. Yeah, he's sort of like on the verge of the Ramones kind of vibe. But then also just yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Such a strange dude.
SPEAKER_03The three stooges, him, Joey Ramone, and Howard Stern, basically the New York those three dudes, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um I have listened to the new cars record. It's unfortunately less exciting than Todd Rundgren Fronts the Cars. You know, that's like a that's like really cool on paper. It's not a bad record or anything. It's just not super, it doesn't super do it for me.
SPEAKER_03Did did Rico Kesick produce those early records?
SPEAKER_02He uh uh no, he did not produce them. Some of the records are produced by Mutt Lang. Uh who's who of course did Def Leopard, um, of course, uh produced uh the breakthrough record by Shania Twain, who I believe was his wife at that point. Yeah. Huge, huge, like huge star, you know, in in the in the recording world. But of course, Ocasic went on to produce the Weezer's Blue album. Weezer's Blue album, uh uh um Bad Brains, yeah, Not a Surf. Yeah uh um a lot of Alan Vega and Suicide and Martin Rev from Suicide. So both both all of them.
SPEAKER_03Um very cool mix of of music there.
SPEAKER_02Nut kind of a nuts mix because you're like, okay, so you did bad brains and you're in the cars, and now you're working with suicide. Okay, this guy's hard to get a handle on. It's like, and now you're working with not a surf? Wait, now we're now motion city soundtrack. Like this dude, this dude's all over the map.
SPEAKER_03Shout out to Motion City soundtrack.
SPEAKER_02This dude's all over the map. Like, what an incredible dude. But but I was pretty determined, so I'm clicking. I'm clicking as I'm going, of course. I don't think I don't have to say that. Yeah, you're just like I have to get away from Todd Röngren. I'm like, yeah, exactly. I'm like, I have to get away from Todd Rengren's. I'll just spend a lot of time talking about Rick Ocasich, who's like such a vast, you know, departure. But it kind of put me in the the zone. I started looking for um interesting cars tidbits. And first off, so one of the interesting things about the cars is that Rick Ocasich had kind of been around for a while, like before the cars broke, similar to Billy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you introduced me actually to that first Rick Ocasich tidbit. Well, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So there's a cup there's all these different like there's like this like kind of a lot more folk rock type stuff. And um so bye-bye love, you know, they're playing around Boston, and Bye bye Love was like uh in the repertoire of the band uh Cap and Swing is what it was called, and that's Cap C A P uh apostrophe N swing, um, which immediately made me wonder, and I couldn't find verification to uh confirming or denying this, whether or not Cap and Jazz, the emo post hardcore band with the Kinsella brothers and uh Davy from from Promise Ring, right?
SPEAKER_03Von Boland. Von Boland? Is it Von Bolland? Davy Yeah, either way, Davy.
SPEAKER_02It made me wonder like Cap and Jazz. Wait, is that a a play on Cap and Swing? Like swing, jazz? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03But Cap and Crunch, who knows?
SPEAKER_02You know, the the CIP uh apostrophe end, that's what kind of made me wonder. It's that seemed a little coincidental. But regardless, they have a version of Bye Bye Love, and it's sung by Rick instead of Benjamin Orr, and it kind of stinks, honestly. It's like good, right? You can tell the song rules.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it's also way more jazz. It's like way like frog rock, you know. I wanted to um but you can just hear, like, okay, this song is clearly uh is a great song. They just hadn't kind of dialed it in yet. So I think by the time the cars kind of break, he's 35, which is not old. Um, I say this as when he's about to be 38. Uh that's young. Um, but by by rock standards, especially in that in that age, like he was kind of considered this dude who'd been around the block, you know, and was like kind of like probably past his hit making prime. But clearly not the case because the cars go on to just dominate the the 80s.
SPEAKER_03Also another electro records band.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so there you go. This is all this is all tied in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I realized that like the cars are another one of those bands where you just you hear I heard cars songs growing up just all the time. They're along with Tom Petty, along with ELO, they're just like wired into my DNA.
SPEAKER_03Something I remember about Cars Records, they're pretty short, right? Like they only have like eight songs. Some of them have like eight songs.
SPEAKER_02They tend to be like really, really direct and like really, really like dialed in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that's just so good. I mean, I was in my like my first teenage band, like we used to cover just what I needed, but uh chiefly without that kind of uh difficult stop that they do, that kind of like hiccup, rhythmic hiccup. Uh I could I couldn't get that. So I was like, let's just let's just not do that part. And it's like obviously the part that makes it like good and and grab your attention, you know.
SPEAKER_03I did that once when I was covering a limbe song for something. Uh uh there was some part where it's just like, yeah, I don't want to doing this very well. So I just got rid of it. Problem solved problem solved.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna rewrite this song for them for my convenience. Um, but I so I started I'm clicking around Rico Kasich's like uh production uh discography, and I'm thinking, like, okay, well, we're gonna find something interesting here. But you know, honestly, I didn't find anything super interesting because we've already talked about it. It's it's it's all interesting in his case that he's that he's like so kind of like varied. Um and that he that like so uh I host a show called Aquarium Drunkard Transmissions as well, and on an upcoming episode, uh we had uh Liz and Jared, the two people who oversee Allen Vegas estate, and they talk about how Rico Kasich invited Suicide to open for the cars on tour, and uh Alan Vegas had something like you don't know you've never you haven't lived until you have like 30,000 fans booing and like throwing things at you, you know, because the car's uh very poppy, very accessible band Suicide, much less so. Yeah, and so I just think how interesting it is, and then was clicking through his stuff, and I realized like he produced a record for for Jonathan Richman, who also is tied into the early days of the cars, uh, via the modern lovers and the Boston scene. And he's got Daryl Jennifer from Bad Brains playing bass on a Jonathan Richman album, and I'm like, this dude is he's truly one of the great rock weirdos, similar to Todd, honestly, in the sense that like you don't know how to you can't put your finger on exactly what he's gonna do. So I'm looking through and I'm looking through his solo work, some of Ocasics, sorry, some of which I really love, and I kind of I follow into this uh this 1997 album, and it's called um Troubleizing, and it was uh uh uh a run-grin, sorry, an Ocasic solo album done at Electric Lady Studios. Nice so bringing it back to New York, of course. Um, and it was produced by Billy Corgan. Wow who um who apparently at the time of Ocasic's death a few years back was working on another album, another another Ocasic album with him. Wow. And then I was kind of thinking I just then I then I just went to Billy Corgan's Wikipedia page, and at that point the show becomes a circus because I couldn't pick just one thing to note about Billy Corgan because I'm looking at his wrestling uh that's that was the first thing I was thinking.
SPEAKER_03It should really should be the first thing you you think about when you think about Billy Corgan is wrestling. Wrestling. But I remember when I heard that I was like, what? Yeah. That that just seemed like such a weird, weird thing. Because I mean, didn't he like buying a wrestling league?
SPEAKER_02Like a like a like kind of like a not not the main one, not WWE is what it's called now. But I mean when we were growing up, it was WWF. But now that's uh copyright held by the World Wildlife Foundation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think so. I think that was the problem.
SPEAKER_02So there was some you know back and forth there, but anyway, he yeah, so he had like sort of this like uh this sort of off-brand uh bootleggy wrestling thing going on. Uh I of course had to revisit when he was on Howard Stern and talked about his experience with a shapeshifter. Um I I went down the entire Zwan saga in which Billy Corgan was um joined by uh uh several indie rock luminaries, including Dave Paho, Slint, and Matt Sweeney from the we've discussed how that's not available on any streaming platforms either. It's not, it's not, and I guess I didn't realize that Corgan had begun doing some of those songs uh live with the Smashing Pumpkins, which you know is like a good sign because at least those I think it's actually a great record. Jimmy Chamberlain's on that record, right? Jimmy Chamberlain carries over from the pumpkins. Yeah, it was before he got replaced by a 16-year-old kid in the Smashing Pumpkins, right, who who then also left and then was replaced by Jimmy Chamberlain once again. But the pumpkins are another Red Hot Chili Peppers of them. Yeah, and that's the that's it were in a weird way it came down to I don't want to spoil any of the potential ones, but the only other thing that I've been spending a lot of time focused on is the existence of the new Red Hot Chili Peppers record. Not necessarily listening to it, but I've listened to no fewer than four interviews with members of the Chili Peppers about making it. Okay. I'm obsessed. Um and there's at least two songs on it that I would ride for, but it's also a double album, and I have not made it all the way through it.
SPEAKER_03So Wow, I don't I don't know anything about this chili pepper. Wait, are we are we really going back to the Chili Pepper? Exactly.
SPEAKER_02So that's what I'm saying. So I was like not gonna do that. I'll focus on something we haven't technically talked a lot about the cars.
SPEAKER_03Although Weezer has come up, although No, I mean the car the cars is yeah, I mean it's a natural next step for sure with the Ocasic thing. Because you're right. I mean, those Rick Ocasic and Todd Rengren are two also incredibly unique people in that they have had massive careers, yeah. But have managed to remain like arguably cool, at the very least, true to exactly who they are. No, like they have not wavered in any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_02100%. And also then to it's one thing to make hits on your own. It's like an entirely different thing to then be also be able to make hits for other people. Amazing producers, yeah, both of them. Because he Ocasic, you know, he produced the blue album, and and that was one of those like uh obviously the blue album massive for me. He also produced the green album, and and for a long time those were Weezer's like biggest, you know, sort of biggest things. I think with Beverly Hills, which I don't think he had anything to do with.
SPEAKER_03No, but he will probably come back for the purple album when you mix those two together. Oh wait, is Rick Ocasich dead? Rico Kasich passed away. I just remembered that just as I was saying that.
SPEAKER_02Unfortunately, unfortunately, yeah, he passed away. And that was a guy whose passing actually hit me. It hit me hard. Hit me hard because I was just like, oh man, uh you get uh used to the idea that he's just out there doing something probably a little weird, but it is yeah, it is weird.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, a lot of those um, you know, yeah, musicians and just just people, because you just for whatever reason, like a lot of people you just assume they're gonna be around forever. I don't know why, because you're not like really keeping tabs on him, then you see him on like a interviewed somewhere on TV and you're like, oh yeah, Rick O'Kesick, or yeah, like Dan Vogelberg or something, and then yeah, yeah, and then you just find out like, oh yeah, that this person's been dead forever, or I thought that person passed away like 10 years ago. Turns out yeah, they're still around.
SPEAKER_02And then there's the Mandela effect in which history's always being rewritten, so who knows who exactly actually so hard to keep track of it when people keep changing the score.
SPEAKER_03Damn it.
SPEAKER_02Um but anyway, so so uh after poking around on Billy Corgan's uh page for a while, I was like Billy Corgan's still alive, right now. I've got it. Billy Corgan is still alive. Billy Corgan is Jimmy Chamberlain, however.
SPEAKER_03He's still alive.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say, hang on a second. I might have missed that. Um Billy Corgan is to so to wrap things up, I uh when I when I was on his page, I was like, oh my gosh, he owned a tea shop, he's done ambient music, yeah, he's got his wrestling league. He's he's who I was talking about when I mentioned that similar to Billy Joel, he's uh had massive, massive success. Success almost beyond what he could have ever Corgan.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Almost beyond what he probably ever could have imagined for himself. And yet you get the sense that he is not stoked about it whatsoever. There's still something eluding him. Maybe he's like mad, he's not considered. There's a lot of bitterness there with Billy Corgan, I feel he's not considered cool enough, he's not considered uh uh revolutionary enough.
SPEAKER_03His beef with uh Courtney Love, I think is maybe my favorite thing about him.
SPEAKER_02Is the fact that he has a beef with her?
SPEAKER_03Just I mean, just the general banter between the two of them. Because I mean they were like friendly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, very friendly. I think he wrote he helped write some of the songs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that that one big song, what was that one song? The I don't know. Whatever. We'll play it, we'll find it. No, not to all parts. Uh no, it was like after post-Kurt Cobain, the Hollywood song where she gets she's all decked out. Right. Yeah, whatever. I think he wrote that song, but didn't get credited for that.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, and when you hear that riff, it's like it's like very, very distinctly so so what we'll do though is we'll we'll close and and I will mention that um that the Smashing Pumpkins, despite my complicated feelings uh about Billy Corgan and his like general uh grumpiness and whatever else, um I think Corgan is actually kind of a um just a fascinating dude and and maybe of all the grunge quote unquote grunge bands, um maybe honestly my favorite musically. The Smashing Pumpk might be my favorite.
SPEAKER_03I wasn't I wasn't a huge fan of the Smashing Pumpkins when they were you know current during the 90s. I didn't I didn't dislike them, but um I don't know, for whatever reason I wasn't a huge fan. And I I've come around I've since come around. It's just one of those bands where I've gone back and revisited those records and have a different appreciation for it. But at the time I wasn't really my jam.
SPEAKER_02Siamese Dream, Incredible Record, Melancholy, Incredible Record, and then oddly I I ride pretty hard for like Adore, um where they kind of take like an electronic gothy turn. And yeah, right. It was their last album before breaking up, although they've since you know reunited and returned. And it's a record that is there are some moments where you can almost tell they're trying to do like industrial or like new metal type stuff, but there are still a couple songs on it that are just so good. So I'll throw one of those in on our on our way out. How are we? I think we're doing I think we did pretty good.
SPEAKER_03We're doing pretty good on time. This I'm I'm kind of impressed, actually.
SPEAKER_02I think we covered familiar ground, but quicker, so yeah. So I mean, hey, two steps forward, one step back.
SPEAKER_03I think now we now we have too much time to fill. That's true. We're we're yeah, I mean, I don't know. What what are we at? Are we have we hit an hour?
SPEAKER_02I think we're about to we're that's good, actually.
SPEAKER_03I guess we're great.
SPEAKER_02We're just about to hit an hour.
SPEAKER_03I don't know, folks. What do you think? You want us to keep going?
unknownNo.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah, all right, cool. Yeah. Well, so as we go out though, we do want to say that like we'd love to hear you about your clip vortex.
SPEAKER_03That's something that we Yeah, we need new ideas.
SPEAKER_02We need uh obviously.
SPEAKER_03Start us off on a on a on a path that doesn't end up at Todd Rundgren or the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
SPEAKER_02Right. Or else.
SPEAKER_03Because we have like 300 more episodes to do. We're only on we're only on three and we've we've signed contracts to at least episode 303. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02So we took a huge advance, guys, and we need your help. So uh what you should do, if you if you wanna actually, if you want to contribute something to the show, or if you have thoughts, or if you have ideas, or if you just want to share something, dial 1 877 waistcoids. Uh just just call that number. Uh what you should do if you if you wanna actually if you want to contribute something to the show, or if you have thoughts, or if you have ideas, or if you just want to share something, dial 1 877 waistcoids. Uh just just call that number. You're gonna get a little message uh from the waste toids, and you can leave us uh a voicemail. And we'll play your voicemails here on the show and we'll sprinkle them throughout all of our Yeah, and for those not familiar, that's a phone number.
SPEAKER_03You dial it in. It's kind of like a text message except with audio.
SPEAKER_02You you press those numbers. Those letters correspond to numbers. You'll you'll definitely be able to figure it out. There is an extra number. I've had some people say, Did you know there's an extra number? To which I say it's a seven, yeah. There is an extra number, but it's okay. Trust us.
SPEAKER_03It still works.
SPEAKER_02We checked it, it works. Um and and do dial all the numbers uh just for fun. 1877 Waysts, leave us a message and um about anything, really. It can be it can be about anything. We're looking for your weird stories, we're looking for your clip vortexes. If you wanna um if you wanna leave corrections, that's a great place to do so. If you want to tell us what your favorite uh Billy Corgan wrestling anecdote is, that's a good place. If you wanna uh just beg us to quit talking about Todd Rundgren, if you are Todd Rundgren and you wanna hop on here with us.
SPEAKER_03Hop on here with us talk more about Todd Rung.
SPEAKER_02Todd, you're welcome. Hey, when you're here in um in town for Celebrity Theater, we'd love to have you in.
SPEAKER_03Um but yeah, I would I would like to know what because I've as I've mentioned many times, the turd Rundgren story from Rolling Stone John Lennon um referring to him as that. I would I would love that. Um But I wonder what Todd thought about that. Todd still if he's still like I mean I guess he's doing a a Beatles tribute, so he must still have to be.
SPEAKER_02He made those those utopia records that just are shameless Beatles.
SPEAKER_03I think I well I think that's where that's maybe I'm wrong, but I think that's where John was like talking shit was on was on the you know, like we can already did that stuff, dude. You know. That's dead. Move on. That's dead, you know, clearly. But then I mean I love for the right around the same time John makes the rock and roll record, which is like another rec another record where people are bringing back the glory of rock and roll.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um well, uh speaking of the glory of rock and roll, that's what the show explores were glorious rock and rollers. Uh, we've covered all sorts of stuff, so now it's your turn. Give us a call. 1-877-Waist Oids. Also, um, you know, you're gonna find all sorts of cool stuff in the Waste Oids feed right now, episodes of Claire Audience. Uh, we've got a lot of new stuff coming. Got some some really joining us to talk about 7-inch records with a new show uh called The Spindle, Mark Masters, and John Howard. Stay tuned for that. So keep keep uh just hit subscribe on that Waste Oids feed, leave us a five-star rating. Smash that subscribe button. Smash that subscribe button, write up a paragraph talking about how much you love all the weird stuff that Waste Toys puts in your podcast feed, and that'll help new folks find the show.
SPEAKER_03And um, I saw somewhere on one of the re one of the reviews, someone said Wastetoids saved my life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I like that, but just so everyone knows, you don't it doesn't have to be that intense. Like it could just be like a thumbs up or it could be like this is pretty cool. Great. Yeah, you enjoy this. No pressure on on the comments, it can just be released or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. But if we did save your life, feel free to note that. We still wouldn't. I don't imagine that I don't I don't know how, but yeah, uh, thanks for listening to Click Vortex. We'll we'll we'll be back in a couple weeks and see you next time. Yeah, see you next time.
SPEAKER_07I d I didn't hear the beginning, but I do freak out. So I'm gonna call back again and hear it again. I'm freaking out, man. It's copy going too hard, man.